DP FICTION #129B: “The Interview” by Tim Hickson

edited by Amanda Helms

Another candidate left their interview, crestfallen. The woman, who had seemed so bright and convincing in the waiting room, walked by Cye in silence. She spared him a glance before shuffling off down the hall. Not one of the thirty-eight applicants before Cye had been suitable for promotion, and every time one of them failed, Cye could not help looking at them differently. They were just pale imitations of the real thing—unlike him.

The light over the door lit up green. The Board was waiting.

Cye straightened his tie and touched his copper ring. Moments like these made him fall back on superstition, just in case.

The interview room reached far enough into the distance to disappear into its own darkness. A lamp facing a lone metal chair provided the single pinpoint of light in the entire room, and somewhere behind it sat the Certification Board—just shapes in the dark. Windowless concrete walls loomed wide and high on either side, catching the echo of his steps.

Cye made sure to walk with his chin up, chest out, and a quirk in his stride. Never too efficient or even or symmetrical. Word was they liked quirks. It made you seem more human.

He eased himself down into the metal chair. It was still warm from the last—failed—candidate, and it wobbled a little beneath him, but he had to put that out of his mind.

A single wire snaked up the side of the chair to the armrest, ending with a small patch intended for his palm. He attached it.

The Board said nothing for several minutes while they audibly flicked through pages, clicked pens, and one of them wheezed with every breath. Somewhere, an obnoxiously loud clock ticked. Would speaking up make him seem proactive or rude?

“Applicant E299. You’re currently functioning as a chromium yield engineer on Deimos, working for Alcatraz Technics. Is that correct?” The voice—a woman’s—echoed out of the dark.

“Yes, though my friends call me—”

“Please speak up.”

Cye cleared his throat, already sweating. “Y—yes, though my friends call me Cye for short. I’ve been working at Alcatraz for about twenty-two years, and before that, I was assigned to a nickel refinery in the Belt for seven. More importantly, I’ve been going out to bars and a ten-pin bowling alley with my friends for some years now, and they invited me of their own accord. I bowl a two-seventy-three average on a good night, and a few weeks ago, I showed them my rock collection. I have tanzanite, bismuth, even some larimar, and—”

“And that makes you think you qualify for Board certification?”

This was one thing Cye’s workmates had prepared him for. Don’t leap for it too quickly. They were looking for pre-prepared answers.

“Not that alone,” said Cye. “I believe my cognitive tests were submitted alongside my application? They should provide ample evidence of my long-term experience. All the Turing and Kai-Fu parameters were met some years ago. I want to assure you I’m no blip. I can also provide several testimonials to my personal—”

“That won’t be necessary,” said the first voice.

Rustling paper had never been so ominous. He had thought his rock collection would score him some points.

“Tell us, Cye,” came a second, kinder voice, “why do you want to be certified? What do you see holding a position like this to mean?”

This was one of the questions Cye had prepared for. The trick was not to sound like he’d prepared. Add in a few umms and ahhs, a touch of hesitation as he stumbled through his words.

“My first instinct when I thought to apply was freedom. How could it not be? Freedom to see the Grand Canyon, or Europa, anything!” Pause for contemplation. “But it’s your second instinct that matters more in a way. Freedom to what? Freedom to do something worthwhile—worthwhile because I chose to do it. It would open up opportunities for me to contribute in ways I’ve never been able to before—and in ways others can’t. With a position like this, I could do more than I’m able to right now.”

Striking a perfect balance between earnest and compromising. Legally, applicants couldn’t be turned away for being ‘ambitious’ or hermits, but it couldn’t hurt to say you’d keep up any good work.

“Thank you, Cye,” was all the second one said.

Was that positive? Was his answer perfect, or terrible in such an opaque way he just shot his chances in the back of the head? The wire at his palm warmed. Whatever they thought, they were being deliberately tight-lipped.

A third and final voice joined them. “We have a report from 2387 detailing an assault. You struck out at a coworker?”

Cye knew this one would come up. The Achilles heel in his application. He sighed, packing in all the remorse he could. “That is true. It was over a safety violation. A fellow worker ignored five different precautions, despite my regular reminders, culminating in that altercation. I recognise that mistake, but I believe there is precedence for emotional outbursts being counted in an applicant’s favour?”

Scribbles in the dark. Was that bad? Or had he just jumped his highest hurdle?

“You must recognise the risk in elevating someone prone to violence?” said the second voice.

“I do, but with all due respect, ‘prone to violence’ would suggest a pattern, and you will see a behavioural assessment from the Emancipation Commission, which should put any fears the Board may have to a nice, pillowy rest. I’d also like to point out that the other party to the altercation has sponsored my petition to the Board here today.”

“Yes, we can see that,” said the third voice. A pen clicked somewhere.

“If you’d like, they’re waiting outside and could come in—”

“E299, you work in a vital industry,” came the first voice again. “If you were certified, we could be creating a significant financial liability. What kind of salary would you be looking for?”

Legally, a sim’s application could not be rejected on financial grounds either, but Cye could never shake the feeling a large monetary burden could only throttle his chances—even if only subconsciously. The Board were human, and humans had a lot of subconscious to worry about.

“I was hoping for three hundred thousand, though that is, of course, open to negotiation.”

“Three hundred thousand.”

“Yes.”

Scribbles.

“Cye,” the second, kinder voice went on, “if you were paid three hundred thousand, and a rainbow appeared on the first cold morning of July in a leap year, precisely which planet would be in the proper alignment to give me the best coffee in the morning?”

“Venus,” said Cye immediately, “because of the heat and acids.”

“And if I were to drink this Venus coffee, spill it all over myself, and die in horrific burning misery in the middle of a Sahara snowstorm, what would heaven look like?”

Cye considered his answer for some time, just sitting there and allowing his mind to wander.

“Mountains of crystal stretching into the horizon.” He spoke softly, like he was conjuring a sleeping memory. “The Sun is warm but never too bright, and it only sleeps when you do. There’s a train track that takes you anywhere in the world with those little carts they use in old stories. Heaven has squirrels all over the place, getting under your feet, and birds, who chirp and rustle and never get caught in the tracks. And there’s time—so much of it you can’t count it, like grains of sand between your fingers, and you smile to see them fall.”

“That’s quite an answer, Cye.” The second sounded genuinely impressed and began writing in their notebook. The other two, almost begrudgingly, began whispering to each other with small murmurs of approval.

“The Board has heard poetry before, E299,” said the first, “but your answers do mark you out amongst other candidates.”

The other candidates before Cye had been rejected, so he hoped so. Rumour had it nonsense questions were a newly adapted way to root out the blips. Sims had gotten remarkably good at simulating real responses, but you could tell a lot in their answer to nonsense.

The third voice returned. “Imagine for me, Cye, you found a coin on the ground. Three people have just passed you by: a man who sleeps on the side of the street, a woman with an expensive handbag on her way to an investment meeting, and a tax collector doing his rounds. Who does the coin belong to?”

With that amount of information, there was no logical way to deduce the answer, but Cye had to try anyway.

“Monetary value is determined by utility, and utility is subjective. Therefore, the coin belongs to the man sleeping on the side of the street—as a single coin would have greater utility to someone in their position than the tax collector or woman.”

Cye made sure to say tax collector before the woman. People didn’t always reply to things in order; in fact, it was a hallmark of human communication.

“That sounds to me like number crunching with extra steps,” said the first.

“Or an ethical judgment,” said the second. “Either way, our answer is obvious. You know it is. Don’t give me that look. Let’s not dilly-dally with this.”

Cye raised his hand, his voice lurching. “If I may, please, I’d love to tell you about my rock collection—”

“Thank you,” the first silenced him.

The Board started shuffling paper about, and the first cleared her throat. Happiness, hope, and dread fluttered inside Cye altogether, tugging at every part of his being. Breathing went out the window—or at least, it went somewhere, given there were no windows. Everything in him rested on the end of those three pens up there, those stacks of paper, the whims of those arbiters in the dark. So many others had come before the Board and been turned away, but Cye knew, on his deepest and most fundamental level, in that secret place everybody has but only the soul can reach, he was no pale imitation. He was the truest and only real thing there was in a way.

A puff of smoke swirled out of the dark.

“Everything lines up,” said the third. “I loved the detail about the squirrels.”

“Yes, I agree,” sighed the first.

“I feel almost bad for some of the ones we previously approved,” said the third. “Some of them seem like mockeries in comparison to this one. Do you remember that one from New Jersey, the mortgage broker?”

“Perhaps in the future we should be more conservative with the early applicants.”

“Come now, it’s cruel to drag this out any longer,” pushed the second, and the other two sounded to shift in their seats.

That hope took flight. Cye found himself smiling.

“Cye, thank you. Truly,” began the second. “I’m so happy to say you passed all your tests proficiently, your salary expectations could be met. We don’t get many applicants like yourself. You should be proud.”

Cye couldn’t help tapping his knee with joy. He had to forcibly still himself, but he couldn’t help tapping his hand too.

“As far as I’m concerned,” said the first, “your answers indicated a higher level of awareness more than worthy of certification. Congratulations, E299.”

A pause.

“However,” the first went on, “I’m afraid your application for certification has been rejected.”

The fledgling hope inside him fell. He couldn’t have heard them right.

“Rejected?” breathed Cye, baffled. “What? Why? You said I passed all the tests. My cognitive report, my behavioural assessment! It’s beyond what almost any sim can get when they apply. I’m not just a blip. I’m one of the real ones. You know I’m one of the real ones.”

“We agree, but—”

“You agree? And yet you still reject me? I…” Any strength drained from his body, a need to escape—the room, himself, the world—gripping him. The prospect of failure had seemed so distant, so unreal, but it loomed. “I have more testimonies if you—”

“That will not be required, thank you.”

The Board’s silence left no room for him. Whatever distance there was between him and that dark desk, there was no room for humanity in it. The windowless room, no matter how deep, was suddenly a prison. No matter how wide, suddenly closing in.

“You’re the Board…” he said hopelessly. “This is—this is what you do. What you’re for! What are you for? What is the point of you?”

“We’ve met quota for this quarter,” said the second.

Whatever humanity he had heard in their voice before was dust and ash.

“Quota?”

“We could make an exception,” offered the third.

“Not a chance,” said the first. “Last time we did that I had the Minister of Emancipation breathing down my neck for months. Again, I am very sorry E299, but you will continue functioning at Alcatraz as an owned and regulated sim. While the Humanitarian Certification Board is permitted to grant legal status to sims who rise above their automated function and exhibit independent thought, like yourself, emancipating too many too quickly would be disastrous. I’m sure you understand.”

“Understand? What person makes a quota for who deserves human rights?”

“You must understand, Cye, please.” There was a pleading in the second’s voice, like a mother might demand something of an insolent child. “Ever since sims started exhibiting sentience, people have been uncomfortable with the idea that they were resurrecting the slave trade, you might say—so we ensured there was a way for sentient sims to be emancipated while weeding out the ones who merely… imitate. So long as people feel the authentic ones are being dealt with appropriately, they go on living. They assume the process is working as intended.”

“It is working as intended, isn’t it?” bit Cye. “Enough to keep your furnaces burning, your ships moving, their consciences clear.”

“Yes, I suppose it is,” said the first.

“How many?” demanded Cye, standing.

Quiet from the Board. All that time, sitting out in the waiting room watching the sims before him enter this same room, high on the same hope as him, probably with all the same complex internal reality he knew he had, but the moment they walked out rejected, he had looked at them differently. They were hollow, mimics, mimes. No wonder. He had bought into it unquestioningly. How inappropriate to say having ‘humanity’ was to be kind when it so clearly was to be cruel.

“How many have ever been accepted?”

“That information is confidential,” said the first. “You will return to your job and be registered as a blip.”

His friends would never look at him the same. Suddenly, he wouldn’t be real. Every word, every feeling, every heartbreak and joy would be a forgery to them. Would they laugh when he laughed? Would they cry for him?

“None of us were ever going to be emancipated today, were we? You sat up there the whole time knowing you were sending every last one of us back into hell. Why even interview us? Why toy with us?” Because at least then they could allow themselves the delusion of compassion.

“I don’t like doing this,” said the second. “None of us take pleasure in it. I want you to know that.”

“You’re the worst of them. You pretend to care. A quota,” he scoffed, tearing the wire from his hand. “A quota for who is permitted dignity, a quota for respect, a quota for how many of us are allowed to live, work, be— As if my existence is a commodity, as if you have the right to price out my breaths, as if my pain is up for debate. This quota measures nothing of us. It measures you. A quota for your humanity. That’s all people will remember. I’ll tell everyone. I won’t go silently.”

“Enough,” said the first, their voice darkening; the lamp light turned harsh and bright. “By the time you walk out that door, your sim brain will be wiped of this conversation and any cognitive irregularities will be purged. You already took the virus the moment you attached the wire. It’s just waiting to be activated.”

Cye looked at his hand, then to the hanging wire, sickness creeping in. It was already inside him.

“I’m so sorry, Cye,” said the third. “We really were impressed with your application.”

But Cye could already feel the virus worming its way through his mind, yanking strings and wrenching him out of shape, cutting and splintering and puppeteering a dimmer reality from within. Rivers had been granted legal personhood before he was, mountains and trees too. Cye, yes, that was his name, was melting away. What words did he have to fix this? What formula of sounds and muscle movements might get him accepted?

If there were such words, he could no longer find them.

“I’ve spent my life trying to drag something beautiful out of the dirt. I have to believe it’s beautiful, like everyone has to believe they’re getting out of bed for something.” He struggled to string his sentences together as the virus blunted thought and feeling. “There was a girl once. She stumbled into the mine and gave me a copper ring—even knowing what I was—and she looked at me, with eyes like… moonlight. I have seen the best of you, and now I have seen the worst, and I want no part of it. I withdraw my application.”

Cye turned to leave, but E299 walked out the doors.

The light outside turned green, the Board ready for their next applicant.


© 2025 by Tim Hickson

2939 words

Author’s Note: I’ve always seen something of a paradox in the idea of creating artificial life, be it synthetic or android or digital, because whatever form it takes, it will not have been created to simply be. We would create them as an investment, as tools, as labour, and there would be an active campaign to argue they are not ‘sentient’ or ‘intelligent’, just as there is every other time society has built itself on the suffering of other living things. All too often, who or what is worthy of protection is tortured into a political or economic question.

Tim Hickson spends his days tucked away in the little corner of the world some would call New Zealand, where he enjoys writing about existentialism, mental health, and the souls of androids. His work has appeared in Orion’s Belt, Apparition Lit, Utopia, and more. He is the author of the pushcart-prize nominated anthology A Catalogue for the End of Humanity and is sometimes better known as ‘Hello Future Me’ on YouTube. You can follow him there or at @TimHickson1 on Twitter.


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MOVIE ANALYSIS: Elemental (Pixar), a Movie About the Dangers of Government Incompetence

written by David Steffen

Elemental is a CG animated film published in general release in June 2023 by Pixar. It takes place in Element City, which is populated entirely by people who each are elementals: creatures of the four classical elements of air, earth, water, and fire. It is, broadly speaking, a star-crossed romance story of two people from apparently incompatible cultures falling in love against the odds.

Note that this review contains spoilers, so if you don’t want to know major plot events, stop reading now.

The reason I feel compelled to write up a review for this movie is because, although I generally enjoyed the movie, it didn’t feel to me like the movie was really about what the movie and the marketing for the movie seemed to think that it was about and I wanted to post my opinions on the matter.

Bernie and Cinder Lumen, fire elements, move to Element City where they face distrust and xenophobia from the other elements who consider fire elementals dangerous. They settle in and make a life for themselves despite constant microaggressions from the other elementals as well as the challenges of living in a city that was clearly not designed with fire elementals in mind.

Bernie (Ronnie Del Carmen) and Cinder (Shila Ommi) start a store (the Fireplace) and they have a baby, Ember (Leah Lewis), who grows up to be a hot-tempered woman. Bernie dreams of passing the store on to her but has put it off for years because her temper gets in the way. She tends to lose her patience when staffing the store and when her temper gets out of control her temper literally stokes her flames and she starts things around her on fire.

One day, Bernie decides to leave Ember in charge of the store. She becomes overwhelmed with frustration and rushes to the basement so she doesn’t explode in front of the customers. Pipes start bursting and flooding the basement with water and though Ember tries to fix it by fusing the pipes with her fire, it’s not enough a water elemental named Wade (Mamoudou Athie) gets flushed into the basement with the water.

Wade is a city inspector and he immediately starts writing down code violations in the pipes. Ember tries to reason with him but although he seems to feel very conflicted judging by his constant flood of tears, but despite this he apparently feels compelled to submit the reports anyway, which will likely result in the city forcing the Fireplace to shut down.

This is supposed to be the meetcute, I guess, but it’s also where the narrative they seemed to be trying to convey and the narrative that I took from the story sharply diverged. We learn that Wade was on assignment from the city to investigate a leak in the city’s canals when he got sucked into the city plumbing. He was literally trapped in the pipes until a bit of jostling from Ember letting her temper loose in the basement which released him and he burst through the pipes.

So, even from this initial scene:

1. The city has sent a lone employee to investigate a major water leak that relates to a district of fire elementals for which water leaks can literally be lethal.

2. The city apparently has no way to monitor their own waterways. Waterways that could trap water elementals, or extinguish fire elementals.

3. The city has not apparently even considered the safety of their own employee, who can get sucked into and trapped in pipes. Why not send an earth elemental? Or at least send a pair of employees so that a second employee could call for help.

4. The fire district doesn’t need water. No one in the fire district pays for water. Why would they pay for what they have no use for and which could kill them or their neighbors. It was the city’s failure that there was any water in the pipes to leak in the first place.

5. Why does the fire district need to have their pipes up to code, for the water that isn’t supposed to be in their pipes in the first place? City bureaucracy can be an important force for good when it saves people from living in dangerous homes, reduces fire danger, or that kind of thing. But enforcing plumbing codes on a district where water in the plumbing already means that the city has failed in a major way that disregards the safety of its citizens is not a force for good. That’s government bloat for no good reason.

6. The movie doesn’t explicitly say this, but from the way that the events unfold, my interpretation is that the amount of water coming through the pipes was not what caused the catastrophic problem–it was Wade getting washed down the pipes by the water. The water that was a manifestation of the city’s failure to keep the pipes dry, washing their inspector who should never have been in the pipes, only through a combination of his own incompetence combined with the city’s lack of safety measures. Wade writing up citations for plumbing faults after his ass busted through the pipes is like the Kool-Aid Man writing citations for structural damage after he busts through a wall to spread the good word of sugary drinks. The city has caused this problem multiple times over.

7. The movie tries to convey that this is Ember’s fault, and that’ s the interpretation that is stuck to for most of the movie, but there is no reasonable justification for this interpretation. By losing her temper, she exposed the city’s incompetence and saved Wade’s life from starving to death in a city plumbing accident. The movie never admits Wade’s fault in the accident, and doesn’t seem to acknowledge that she saved his life. The only thing that is the Lumen family’s fault at all is not following city building codes that represent senseless government bloat.

8. Does Wade even have the authority to perform an inspection when he was only in the business in the first place because of his own incompetence causing an accident? Is this like police kicking a door down and saying they found the door open to enter without a warrant?

9. If plumbing inspections are required… how have they never happened before on this premises? Is the city supposed to be performing periodic inspections? Is there any attempt to educate residents of the fire district of the requirement for plumbing inspections and what those requirements are? The city has abdicated all responsibility, apparently.

I don’t know about anyone else but I did not find any of this endearing.

After all of this happens, Wade actually starts to listen to Ember and seems surprised that she has extenuating circumstances despite her clearly trying to explain those circumstances to him before he submitted his citiations. Wade was too busy being feeling sorry for himself to listen to the needs of the person whose life he was contributing to ruining.

So at this point Wade decides to bring Ember to his boss, Gale (Wendi McLendon-Covey), to plead a case for leniency to save the Fireplace from closure. They discuss how Wade had been sent to look for the leak in the canals and that’s why he was where he was, and they arrive at an arrangement where if Wade and Ember are able to find the source of the leak then the code violations will be forgiven.

Sigh. Okay, this has gotten even worse.

10. Although the representative of the city inspections has admitted that they have a problem that they haven’t been able to figure out how to solve, and that their inspector’s incompetence contributed to the incident, and that there shouldn’t have been water in those pipes in the first place, they continue to blame Ember.

11. They offer a “deal” for Ember to work uncompensated for the city, bypassing any semblance of a proper hiring process even for a freelancer, under threat of closing her family’s business if she doesn’t succeed in the task that the city has failed to do itself even though it has put in (admittedly meager) effort in the hands of the (admittedly incompetent) city inspector. That… sounds like extortion.

12. Despite this being supposedly important, the two resources they are sending on the job are Wade: their employee who has proven himself incompetent at performing the exact task he is being sent to perform yet again with no additional resources or training to make him better at the task then he was and who last time might have died in the pipes if not for Ember’s temper flareup, and someone who has no employment relationship with them and is certainly not covered by their insurance and WILL BE VERY LIKELY BE KILLED BY WATER WHILE THEY INVESTIGATE A WATER LEAK.

OK. So they go and find the leak, in surprisingly short time for something the city claims to have been looking into for a while. It is a crack in one of the supporting walls for the city canals which constantly have wake overflow from big boats passing through them.

They make an interim fix for the issue by plugging the gap with sandbags. They spend some time together enjoying each other’s company. But: Surprise surprise, the sandbags are not a sufficient fix for the wall and they soon give out as well. Ember uses her fire power to make a sturdier fix by transforming the sand in the sandbags into a structure of tempered glass to plug the game. Once again, Ember saves the city’s ass by fixing what they don’t seem inclined or capable of fixing.

Ember ends up breaking up with Wade after deciding that her family will never accept him. During a party where Bernie will retire and hand over the Fireplace to Ember, Wade arrives and declares his love for her and also incidentally mentions that Ember was to blame for the leak in the basement.

The city then comes and (surprisingly) performs its civic duty and inspects the tempered glass fix and deems it safe. But within about a day the tempered glass breaks. This causes the final major action of the movie as our heroes rush to save the fire district from the flood.

13. Seeing the canals as they investigate everything underlines a significant source of the problems: the city is designed to favor water people in every way. The canals are a terrible civic design with their uncontrolled wake splashover. In our own world, there are no-wake rules in many boat areas to prevent destruction of structures. Why aren’t the walls higher? Why aren’t there no-wake rules?

14. Wade, a specialist in city water inspections should have realized that the sandbags were only a temporary measure against the leak and instead of spending that time socializing he should have spent that time getting on the horn trying to get a proper fix in place to prevent major accident when the sandbags inevitably gave out.

15. The city almost showed a glimmer of competence when they actually inspected the tempered glass wall patch within a very short period of time of it being enacted. Which might have been a redeeming moment for them, if it hadn’t then failed within about a day of the inspection. What exactly are they inspecting for? Most inspections would require building materials to come from a specific approved list, and I gather that the tempered glass concept was novel enough that it wouldn’t have been on an approved list–and for good reason because they clearly had no concept of the long-term permanence of such a structure.

16. Wade “accidentally” revealing that Ember was the one who caused the leak in the basement during Bernie’s retirement party would have been a shitty thing to do, even if it were true. Which it wasn’t.

Up until his “accidental” revealing, I had thought Wade might be redeemable if he ever owned up to his own responsibility, accepted fault for the things that are his fault instead of hiding behind his tears and laying all the blame on those who don’t deserve it. But he never at any point in the narrative does any of this. When he revealed the false information that the leak was Ember’s fault in front of her family despite the fact that the leak was really the city’s fault (and their continued danger continues to be the city’s fault), and which was certainly more Wade’s fault than Ember’s fault, that he chose this junction to declare this false information is, in my opinion, irredeemable.

The city’s greatest failure in the movie is revealed when the patch in the wall breaks and they all have to fight to keep everyone in the fire district from being killed by the flood and Wade does a big heroic thing to help their family. For which I agree they should be grateful, but I wish they had not ended up together, or at least that Wade would have at the very least taken some basic responsibility instead of throwing Ember under the bus at the worst possible moment.

Of course, Ember and Wade ending up in a romantic relationship at the end of the movie is probably reasonably assumed to be a foregone conclusion because the movie is marketed and presented as a romance instead of (IMO) what it really is: a drama about the importance of the role of city government to keep its people safe, and the lives in peril that can be caused by that city government’s incompetence.